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Landy
Joined: 15 Dec 2005
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solidred
Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 631
Location: Scotland
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 Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| I think it looks rather wonderful
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Landy
Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 457
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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thanks,
I was trying to kick off a debate on the importance of time for architecture. I believe one of the reasons architects seem bitter over architecture is it's overnight construction and castrating it from the actual time that it takes to cook architecture. My believe is that since the industrial revolution and the invention of steel/concrete/eifs/gypsum civil engineering took the role of architecture making us believe that architecture is to be only light weight or worst sustainable. When time ie history has let us know that architecture is not about cheaper "greener" solutions but contributions to the built environment and for some objects of fine art.
ps
I am not comparing it's aesthetic nor it's historic relevance to the parthenon
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futuristarchitect
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Was wondering why you posted an image of the Walt Disney Swan and Dolphin Hotels, if they are another project and not designed by Ryugyong....by the way, where is an image of the finished project, or what it is to be?
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sutcac
Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 4
Location: Arroyo Grande, CA, USA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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The Walt Disney World Dolphin was designed by Michael Graves, I think his point being the similarity of the basic shapes of the buildings and why one is considered the worst and the other celebrated.
Just to play devil's advocate: The industrial revolution has freed men from the drudgery, and sometimes outright slavery, empolyed in the construction of buildings like Notre Dame, and never mind the lack of worker safety in those days.
I would strongly suspect much of the labor for this North Korean behemoth has also been done in near slavery conditions.
Can't have your cake and eat it too.
Also, I don't think you can really be a fair judge of a building one way or another from a small snapshot. You have to go experience the building for yourself.
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Bryce Engstrom:Architect, A.I.A., General Building Contractor
www.engstromarchitecture.com
www.central-coast-project-design-planning-guides.com |
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solidred
Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 631
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sure sutcac and Landy know they're both right. Or, take it from me: you're both right 
What I would contest, though, to lend some weight to Landy's thought, is that if I look at yer average wonderfully-sculpted, full-of-character gargoyle on a gothic cathedral, I don't see the effects of slavery. I see the effects of joyful, hopeful release from drudgery. Take, in comparison, your average modern office building and I see evidence of lifelessness... The modern, progressive, office environment near killed my real, human sensibilities stone dead.
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sutcac
Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 4
Location: Arroyo Grande, CA, USA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 10:30 am Post subject: |
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I have never really had, by concious choice, the Dilbert experience in a cubical in an office but had considered your line of thought as I typed. I don't doubt this is true.
But considering your gargoyle reference, I would posit that this type of lovely detailing constituted a small fraction of the overall labor to construct Notre Dame, and done by a lucky, or maybe also a hard working and studying, elite level of worker. Now you can have your gargoyle cast in a factory with the same level of detail. Does this make it less joyful? Would most even know if was cast and not laboriously sculpted?
So I think we have not properly embraced what the industrial revolution can bring to architecture. It's not the revolution's fault, but ours.
_________________
Bryce Engstrom:Architect, A.I.A., General Building Contractor
www.engstromarchitecture.com
www.central-coast-project-design-planning-guides.com |
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Landy
Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 457
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| Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:29 am Post subject: |
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| so it's safe to say that Ryugyong hotel looks like something out Michael Graves office?
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sutcac
Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 4
Location: Arroyo Grande, CA, USA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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Well, just because they both use vaguely triangular elements based on a couple of snapshots doesn't mean much as far as critiquing them as works of architecture. The are clearly of very different scales.
But I thought your main point was about time. Other than the fact that the Korean project is not finished, what else do you base your support of it as a potential masterpiece on?
Personally, and admittedly on a superficial level as I have not been in either building, I find them both rather hideous.
_________________
Bryce Engstrom:Architect, A.I.A., General Building Contractor
www.engstromarchitecture.com
www.central-coast-project-design-planning-guides.com |
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WalkerARCHITECTS
Joined: 25 Sep 2007
Posts: 51
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| Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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Ruskin writes eloquently in the Seven Lamps of Architecture about the relationship between beauty and human virtues. The common man in the US today, in this great democracy of ours, is both convinced of his freedom and simultaneously hopelessly chained to enduring debt. Debt of a scale easily equal to the indentured servitude popular in the original thirteen colonies.
Slavery as an evil conspiracy has somewhat transmogrified over time and distance in western civilization but is subject to a simple philosophical test of the measure of an individual citizens right to choose and elect his government. so although we have not freedom in the most ideal form I must agree with Landy that we have more of it here and now.
The point of architecture however is simply whether or not it is a masterwork in physicality, achieves superb compliance with the law and intelectual constraints of it's time and place and is beautiful enough to bring rapture to the spirit.
I cannot tell from the photo enough regarding any of those three properties to make a declaration about this building. politics aside I like it as an expression of form as shown in this photo. Regarding the building of Mr. Graves, I have been there and it is not among my favorites.
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Landy
Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 457
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