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karinaleung
Joined: 22 Oct 2008
Posts: 1
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 Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:48 pm Post subject: Value of degree when hiring |
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How do employers view potential hires' degrees? Is there any benefit to having a M.Arch. I degree (without an undergraduate degree) over a B. Arch. degree from an comprable school, as long as both degrees are from accredited programs?
I'm currently a student at the University of Kansas and have the choice of receiving a B.Arch. or M.Arch degree becasue the B.Arch program is being discontinued and the school now only offers an M.Arch. I degree to undergraduate students. The only differences in requirments are the addition of one class and a study abroad requirement for the M.Arch I. |
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solidred
Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 631
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 5:58 am Post subject: |
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Your portfolio and the place where you studied are probably more important than the technical status of your degree. There are still many architects out there who like to hire 'one of their own sort' and so you might have a doctorate and an amazing portfolio but you won't get the job because they can't see themselves in you... After I graduated with a Grad Des Dip from the AA in London, for example, I began to realise that it would be easier getting a job with Zaha Hadid than with some local firm in Scotland, to whom my avant garde projects just went over their heads.
In other words, do some thinking about where and for whom you wish to work after graduating. That said, the MArch looks worth the slight extra effort and the 'study abroad' element is really worth doing. |
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wstuart
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 9
Location: Central California, USA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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If a person comes to me with a M,degree it makes me wonder whether I am just a stepping stone until they get a job at a university teaching things they know nothing about. I have hired folks with M.degrees but they are not better than those without. For me, I would hire an architecture drop out with construction experience before I would hire a person with any degree. It has been my experience over the last 30 years in the business that architecture schools teach only theory and very little practical. I have to do some much training with college grads it is unbelieveable. Sorry if that sounds harsh.
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Calif. Architect |
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djswan
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 887
Location: Montana, USA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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Yes it does. It gives me joy to to beat the stuff you've learned out of your head. I'm hiring, hmmmmm now where to post this?
edit post: to add seriously and fix spelling for ad.
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Antisthenes
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 688
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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experience is all that matters
school is for the debtors, those with rich parents, and wanna be over payed
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The most necessary/useful piece of learning is that which unlearns what is untrue: 'evil'
may be acquired, Happiness through virtue which is based on knowledge!/? |
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djswan
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 887
Location: Montana, USA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:11 am Post subject: |
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Maybe, Hiring somebody with a degree in the building arts, gives me instant credit, speaking of debt. I'm going to relax a bit on my experiences, more vacations less hewing. Sometimes the thirst for knowledge works both ways. And yes, more money was generated, when I hired foks who could bring something to the table, I lacked. I do have a business degree in a couple of things, don't use them much though.
I need another sith apprentice, or the voice of Sauron, something like that. 
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iphilblue
Joined: 27 Oct 2008
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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Totally agree, experience is the key (unfortunately for recent graduates)
Altough getting hired these days is going to be nearly impossible, whether you have experience or not... |
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nanrehvasconez
Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 254
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| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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When we hire new people we look for thing like these:
1. Appearance, do not came smealing of alcohol or tobacco to apply for a job, male or female, dress for the occation. Tattoos are a no no.
2. Ability to comunicate, oral and in writting, do not use slang or 4 letter words.
3. Resume-experience-versatility-creativity, be ready to hand sketch with a pencil if you are applying for a delineartor possition, we test for CAD knowledge and experience, if the applicant is 75% qualified, we will get some one to coach he/she in the ways we do buisness. If you are applying for an apprentceship is diferent.
4. Portfolio-past work-specialty.
Depending on the duties to be assigned we look for:
5. Degrees and Licenses, letters of recommendation.
6. Experience in the field you are applying for surpass other qualifications.
Never tell the interviewer that you know everything, better say that you are a quick study.
Be respectful, interviewers know if you are a team player or a solo flyer.
All our associates are introduced to our clients. |
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djswan
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 887
Location: Montana, USA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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spit and polished til it shines, keep up the act.
Superficial is a non four letter word that comes to mind. I know a bunch of Marines with tatoos, excellent team players I might add. And a happy belated birthday USMC.
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cousineddie
Joined: 22 Aug 2008
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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Mister, thought you jist might like to read this.
As I came out of the supermarket that sunny day, pushing my cart of groceries towards my car, I saw an old man with the hood of his car up and a lady sitting inside the car, with the door open. The old man was looking at the engine. I put my groceries away in my car and continued to watch the old gentleman from about twenty five feet away. I saw a young man in his early twenties with a grocery bag in his arm, walking towards the old man. The old gentleman saw him coming too and took a few steps towards him. I saw the old gentleman point to his open hood and say something. The young man put his grocery bag into what looked like a brand new Cadillac Escalade and then turn back to the old man and I heard him yell at the old gentleman saying, 'You shouldn't even be allowed to drive a car at your age.' And then with a wave of his hand, he got in his car and
peeled rubber out of the parking lot.
I saw the old gentleman pull out his handkerchief and mop his brow as he went back to his car and again looked at the engine. He then went to his wife and spoke with her and appeared to tell her it would be okay. I had seen enough and I approached the old man. He saw me coming and stood straight and as I got near him I said, 'Looks like you're having a problem.' He smiled sheepishly and quietly nodded his head. I looked under the hood myself and knew that whatever the problem was, it was beyond me. Looking around I saw a gas station up the road and told the old man that I would be right back. I drove to the station and went inside and saw three attendants working on cars. I approached one of them and related the problem the old man had with his car and offered to pay them if they could follow me back down and help him.
The old man had pushed the heavy car under the shade of a tree and appeared to be comforting his wife. When he saw us he straightened up and thanked me for my help. As the mechanics diagnosed the problem (overheated engine) I spoke with the old gentleman.
When I shook hands with him earlier he had noticed my Marine Corps ring and had commented about it, telling me that he had been a Marine too. I nodded and asked the usual question, 'What outfit did you serve with?' He had mentioned that he served with the first Marine Division at Tarawa, Saipan, Iwo Jima and Guadalcanal . He had hit all the big ones and retired from the Corps after the war was over. As we talked we heard the car engine come on and saw the mechanics lower the hood. They came over to us as the old man reached for his wallet, but was stopped by me and I told him I would just put the bill on my AAA card. He still reached for the wallet and handed me a card that I assumed had his name and address on it and I stuck it in my pocket. We all shook hands all round again and I said my goodbye's to his wife.
I then told the two mechanics that I would follow them back up to the station. Once at the station I told them that they had interrupted their own jobs to come along with me and help the old man. I said I wanted to pay for the help, but they refused to charge me. One of them pulled out a card from his pocket looking exactly like the card the old man had given to me. Both of the men told me then, that they were Marine Corps Reserves. Once again we shook hands all around and as I was leaving, one of them told me I should look at the card the old man had given to me. I said I would and drove off.
For some reason I had gone about two blocks when I pulled over and took the card out of my pocket and looked at it for a long, long time. The name of the old gentleman was on the card in golden leaf and under his name........ 'Congressional Medal of Honor Society.'
I sat there motionless looking at the card and reading it over and over. I looked up from the card and smiled to no one but myself and marveled that on this day, four Marines had all come together, because one of us needed help. He was an old man all right, but it felt good to have stood next to greatness and courage and an honor to have been in his presence.
Remember, old men like him gave you FREEDOM for America. America is not at war.
The U.S. Military is at war.
America is at the Mall.
If you don't stand behind our troops, PLEASE feel free to stand in front of them!
God Bless America, our Veterans and Troops. |
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djswan
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 887
Location: Montana, USA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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it was a good read.
That reminds me to go donate to Toys for Tots. I grew up in the Marine Corps and served too. I can't think of a better degree for the archi part of architect.
God Bless America and to those who have served this great nation with honor.
I love my country
Semper Fi
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grid
Joined: 13 Nov 2008
Posts: 11
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| It all depends on the firm. Some firms are wowed by a degree from a specific school while other could care less about the degree and are more interested in the portfolio/ideas. |
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nanrehvasconez
Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 254
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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I never implied that we do not hire marines or other people with military back rounds, yes indeed, they are very diciplined and follow the rules, great workers, but in "general" they are not adventurous enough to work outside the box.
Tatoos are a no no in our firm, our firm, our rules. |
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djswan
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 887
Location: Montana, USA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| nanrehvasconez wrote: |
1. Appearance |
Trust me when I say your #1 doesn't appear good.
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nanrehvasconez
Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 254
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 11:09 am Post subject: |
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djswan
I don't know who you are, if you are a male will you like to kiss Rosie O'Donell or Angelina?, if you are a girl will you like to go with George Cloonie or Dick Cheney or Paulson?
Please read the last paragraph of this article.
Appearance Counts
Books are judged by their covers, houses are appraised by their curb appeal, and people are initially evaluated on how they choose to dress and behave. In a perfect world this is not fair, moral, or just. What’s inside should count a great deal more. And eventually it usually does, but not right away. In the meantime, a lot of opportunities can be lost.
In our lives, hundreds of very important decisions have already been made for us that impact every aspect of our lives. Our gender, skin color, height, the number of hair follicles on our head, the shape and size of our hands and feet, as well as who our parents are, our siblings, our early child hood circumstances, and the country of our birth are factors that we do not control or influence.
But we can control how we portray ourselves to the outer world. In transformational learning, the idea is to start at a place that is most visible and allows for immediately recognized results. Wardrobe, grooming, and nonverbal communication are aspects that are apparent on the outside to the outside world. Combined, these factors can frame us as competent, knowledgeable, elegant, gracious, powerful, or anything else we choose to communicate.
You Have Just Thirty Seconds
Social psychologists studying the impact of image have determined that’s how long it takes for someone meeting you to form a whole laundry list of impressions about your character and abilities. The list of impressions encompasses:
Educational level
Career competence and success
Personality
Level of sophistication
Trustworthiness
Sense of humor
Social heritage
Now, thirty seconds doesn’t give you time to pull out your college transcript, showcase your resume, or present character references. It doesn’t allow any time to explain that you have talent, skills, training, and a substantial list of truly satisfied employers and customers.
In thirty seconds, people form all those different impressions based almost entirely on what they see—your clothes, hairstyle, carriage, smile, and the rest of your nonverbal communications. Appearances do count.
These quick impressions can be lasting ones. Psychologists call it the halo effect. When your visual message is positive, the person you’ve just met will tend to assume that other aspects about you are equally positive. But unfortunately, if your visual message is negative, that new customer, client, co-worker, or prospective employer may not spend the time and effort to discover the talented person inside.
Appearances count in today’s world—as much or even more than in earlier decades. Rigid “success dressing” rules have yielded to new, more flexible guidelines that encompass casual business looks as well as traditional power suits. But as the speed of the business world accelerates, the importance of making a positive first impression increases, too.
Appearances count, not only in first impressions, but also in ongoing interactions. In his comprehensive research on communication, sociolinguist Albert Mehrabian found that in a face-to-face encounter, 7 percent of a verbal message comes from the words used; 38 percent comes from the vocal tone, pacing, and inflection; 55 percent of the message is transmitted by the speaker’s appearance and body language.
Appearances count, especially in the business world. When one college’s career planning and placement center surveyed 150 employers, they discovered that the number-one reason for rejecting an applicant after the first interview was poor personal appearance.
Interestingly, those employers ranked poor appearance even more significant than being a “hostile, overbearing know-it-all” (reason no. 9) or “late for the interview without good reason” (reason no. 2 . Obviously hostility or tardiness isn’t encouraged either, but the findings certainly support the importance of appearance.
Courses that help managers become better interviewers stress learning to bypass those first impressions and go deeper. They train the interviewer to suspend judgment in the first thirty seconds and even the first five minutes. Why? Because those immediate instinctual reactions are so ingrained. Thousands of years ago a human’s survival often depended on how shrewdly and quickly he or she could size up a situation. Only those who could “read” others accurately lived to fight another day.
Amazingly, appearances count even when nobody else sees you! One study says that Americans have the opportunity to see their own reflection (in mirrors, windows, elevator doors, etc.) up to fifty-five times every day. That means fifty-five opportunities to feel instantaneously good, indifferent, or even negative about your physical self.
Appearances count—often in cold, hard cash. Dr. Judith Walters of Fairleigh Dickinson University researched the impact of an effective business appearance on a starting salary. She sent out a group of identical resumes to more than a thousand companies. Some resumes were accompanied by a “before” photo of the applicant, others by an “after” photo. Each company was asked to determine a starting salary.
The results were amazing. Starting salaries ranged 8 to 20 percent higher as the result of upgrading a mediocre business appearance to one that is polished and effective. Employers are willing to pay for people who look the part. If the employee already projects an image of professionalism, that’s one less thing—one potentially unpleasant thing—that the firm has to worry about.
* Source- The New Professional Image, Susan Bixler, Adams Media |
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