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Adrian Lombardo
Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 20
Location: Canterbury, UK
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 Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:00 am Post subject: Is innovation really that important in architecture? |
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I have always been struck by the supposed importance of innovation in architecture. Never mind if the users of the Lloyds building in London would rather work across the street in that old building like they did before, the building is a one-of-a-kind, so it gets all the praise. How does this help the clients? Since romanticism there has been increasing stress on making something different than everything else, and the result is ugly cities like London where all the buildings are screaming for attention and trying not to fit in. They often are failure socially as well. I am frequently told Venice is the most beautiful city in the world. Sure, there is a mild struggle between gothic and classical styles, but compared to any modern city it is incredibly coherent. If the architects of this place stressed innovation and ridiculed any building remotely similar to something already made, it would never have the positive emotional impact it has on people. Creative thinking is of course important, to solve specific problems, but many feel there is by far too much stress on innovation and not enough faith in well-tested methods and traditions when it comes to aesthetics.
There are increasingly many architects and theorists, such as Nikos Salingaros, Christopher Alexander and Alain De Botton who argues very well in their books about this point. They all refer to environmental psychology or sociobiology to explain this. In what way is society served by having nothing but wannabe-landmarks and very different buildings everywhere? It is clear that most non-architects are not especially impressed.
What do you think? Are there any other good authors on this subject? Should the experimental and progressive science have more influence on the built environment, and maybe pseudo-philosophy with big words and empty meaning have less? |
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solidred
Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 631
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:39 am Post subject: |
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Novelty for its own sake has a short life span, of course. There's also the problem of photo-aesthetic imagery being a principle means of dissemination when architects are looking to make a name for themselves or others looking for inspiration; wishing to be 'cool'.
But there is a valid argument for an architecture of a given day addressing the particular needs of that day. Architects themselves are not really in control of this, on the whole. Design-build contracts desired by corporate clients put much of the construction/system choices into the hands of contractors. You won't find many hospitals or schools being built in sandstone whether the architect or the public would prefer this or not...
Also, rapidly changing conditions provoke the bolder architects to try out fundamentally experimental techniques which can and do fail. This isn't quite as irresponsible as it sounds. For example, we won't get far in addressing the environmental agenda if we don't explore options a bit.
The maxim 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' doesn't work when your perfectly serviced car suddenly finds itself in a peat bog...
In summary, I think responsible architects should both address current and future concerns by taking an exploratory attitude to design but with the proviso that they avail themselves of a good understanding (and thus respect for) history and tradition as well. As you mention a London example, have a look at Fielden Clegg Bradley's work nearing completion just beside (and under) St.Martin-in-the-Fields just by Trafalgar Square as an example. |
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csintexas
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Joined: 06 Feb 2006
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Location: USA
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Adrian Lombardo
Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 20
Location: Canterbury, UK
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:57 am Post subject: |
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Thanks a lot. I am a bit skeptical about this book, judging from the customer reviews. De Bottons' "The Architecture of Happiness", Salingaros' "A Theory of Architecture" and Alexanders "A Pattern Language" all have very good user ratings and reviews.
solidred, you are right that novelty is relatively important, especially to keep up with the latest technology. If there is one thing I dislike about the new urbanist movement, it is that they seem to like thing better the more traditional it is. But at many architecture schools today, the main thing that is being taught is to rethink everything and ignore all pre-existing ideas. Findings of science and psychology, it seems, are hardly ever mentioned. Shallow post-rationalisation is favoured real meaning, I think. But it is difficult to talk about aesthetics without getting a naive-label. |
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nanrehvasconez
Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 254
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| From the point of view of the corporate client that owns or rents an office in a LAND MARK building, such as the Empire State, the Chrysler Building in New York, the Petrona Towers in Kuala Lampur, and others in London, Paris, Dubay, etc. is equivalent to free publicity worth millons of dollars in advertising and prestige, and in many cases billons of dollars in revenew and sales. |
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csintexas
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Joined: 06 Feb 2006
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Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know anyone who rents space in those buildings and it sure isn't going to influence my purchasing decisions. I have less respect for Dubai because of the building frenzy and excess that will crumble just like the housing bubble and excess crumbled here.
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Chris Stewart
Modern Texas Home Project |
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Adrian Lombardo
Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 20
Location: Canterbury, UK
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| What I meant is, it benefits the clients when the landmarks once in a while actually end up looking special and gets attention, but it does not benefit the users at all. |
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solidred
Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 631
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 5:50 am Post subject: |
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Chris, I've read a good chunk of that book 'Architecture of the Absurd'... I found it rather annoying; an example of a person who is powerful and expert in one area of life assuming similar authority in another. Of course, he's perfectly entitled to air his opinions but no more so than you or I.
I came across a quote of Marcel Proust last night that could be read also in terms of architectural innovation:
"Every writer is obliged to create his own language, as every violinist is obliged to create his own "tone"... I don't mean to say that I like original writers who write badly. I prefer - and perhaps it's a weakness - those who write well. But they begin to write well only on condition that they're original, that they create their own language. Correctness, perfection of style do exist, but on the other side of originality, after having gone through all the faults, not this side. Correctness this side - [insert here 'classical pastiche', 'surface-deep modernism', 'archaisism' for Proust's literary examples] doesn't exist. The only way to defend language [or architecture] is to attack it..."
As a matter of passing curiosity, the quotation was made in an earlier book by Alain de Botton: 'How Proust can Change your Life'... I rate the guy. Saw him at the RIAS conference this year. He talks sense; simply but deeply. |
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csintexas
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:50 am Post subject: |
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I think the importance of iconic buildings has been over rated. I like the Sydney Opera House but it isn't going to drive my vacation plans (and I like architecture). It will have even less impact on my wife
The only thing I would say about that book is that maybe sometimes we want an outsiders opinion. I think that maybe the architecture community tends to be too internalized. I would have to guess most of the "bad" reviews of the book are from architects who do not appreciate being criticized by an outsider.
But I have not read the book or the reviews of the book so maybe the guy just doesn't know what the hell he is talking about. It seems like I remember reading that his father was an architect.
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solidred
Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 631
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:12 am Post subject: |
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Chris, it's not the synopsis of the book I have a problem with. It's the book itself 
As for iconic buildings, I'm far more concerned with the subliminal war on our senses waged by all the miserable crap that's getting built; the difference between a place that works towards making you feel alive (Venice) or dead (Birchwood, a suburb of Manchester... obviously you substitute your own version) |
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WalkerARCHITECTS
Joined: 25 Sep 2007
Posts: 51
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:45 pm Post subject: Inovation and Architecture |
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Fresh design is important here, we see the process of articulating light and surface to create our art as important, when we do new and innovative things we learn even when we toss the idea away, so in my studio the process by which the future comes to form is important. Not every innovation is good. Innovation drives and fuels the future and the present we have exists because of the prerequisite innovation and the precedents established. Innovations are the stepping stones into the desired future state.
Yes, Innovation is important in architecture. |
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csintexas
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Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:02 am Post subject: |
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"Yes, Innovation is important in architecture."
Agreed. (to some extent)
I don't see Venice as being innovative and I don't know Birchwood so I am not really understanding you here solidred.
I guess the only places a truly disliked where some of those modern mass multi-housing projects. (Cabrini Green style)
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Chris Stewart
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djswan
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 887
Location: Montana, USA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:56 am Post subject: |
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I'm getting the sense from the responses, alot of crap that has been built. Lots of people are starting to see it now, look at the markets.
When you realize you have been part of the crap too, that is innovate.
Make 'em all put grass on the roofs. That's a quick fix to all the ugly you can see from Google Earth.
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solidred
Joined: 05 Jan 2006
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Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| csintexas wrote: | "Yes, Innovation is important in architecture."
Agreed. (to some extent)
I don't see Venice as being innovative and I don't know Birchwood so I am not really understanding you here solidred.
I guess the only places a truly disliked where some of those modern mass multi-housing projects. (Cabrini Green style) |
Venice, not innovative??!?
A little architectural history lesson here might be in order... 
As for Birchwood, it's a suburb and, though many, especially families, will find it convenient to have homes with gardens etc., its centrepiece is reached by car and it's a big blank box full of boring shops. The whole place repels any sense of culture: it is a celebration with warm, flat, champagne substitute on the banality life can aspire to  |
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Richard Haut
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Joined: 18 Apr 2004
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Location: Nice, France
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| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 1:28 am Post subject: |
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Chris: do yourself a favour, a big favour: visit Venice.
I just wonder if this question should be the other way round: what is architecture without innovation ?
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Richard Haut has worked with the architectural profession for over 25 years and produces the weekly Richard Haut's Competitions, which has given architects details of many thousands of projects for which they can apply across Britain and Europe. |
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